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Talk:Romulan/archive
PNA This is almost unbearable! Loads and loads of info are given, and I have absolutely no idea where it came from. References are given at the buttom of the article, but does that mean that I have to trace back the info and puzzle the references back together myself? Could someone please make references at the end of paagraphs/sections? -- Redge 13:53, 30 Jun 2004 (CEST) :Where are the references? --Gvsualan 04:00, 11 Jan 2005 (CET) : This page contains a lot of fluff and has changed significantly since it was first featured as of the "Revision as of 00:04, 27 Jul 2004". Therefore, I removed the featured aricle per the intro on the Featured article removal candidates page. I also added the to the page until we get either a rewrite or concrete references. --Gvsualan 20:21, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT) ::virtually all the stuff about the remans seems to be made up, w/o any logical basis in fact ::This entry contains a good deal of information on Remans that is conjecture. The origins of the Reman species are unclear to say the least. ::Does the really still apply to this article? I agree it could be expanded, but so could a lot of articles, and most of the references have been placed. My thinking is mark it as incomplete or remove the needs attention marking Logan 5 23:14, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) Wikipedia I've noticed that parts of "Physiology" are identical with the Wikipedia. Are they taken from here to there or from there to here? --Porthos 00:28, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC) - Investigate: The statement that Romulans are no stronger than humans is contested. Popular lore has it that they fall on a continuum of body strength between humans and Vulcans, but evidence is sketchy. Anyone who's got the time, do some poking around? :In ENT:Kir'shara, archer fight against vulcans soldiers and manage to beat them. The fighting scene didn't give the impression they were any stronger than archer. --rami *Maybe they were really tired after searching for the Syrranites?--Mike Nobody 20:41, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC) in enterprise when the "vulcans without logic" come to visit one throws archer with ease, and many times in many episodews the vulcan extra-human strength has been mentiond Interest in humans? There should be a section dealing with the inherent Romulan (cultural) interest in humans. Namely, the misconception about Human height. Both Vreenak and Shinzon thought that Sisko and Picard would be taller, respectively. --Zeromaru 19:24, 1 Sep 2005 (UTC) :I think the "I thought you would be taller" comments come from a sense of respect (or possibly infamy). Even I tend to expect people who are famous or respected to be taller than they actually are. -- 04:09, 2 Oct 2005 (UTC) Romulan biology Who ever said that Romulans became a new species in 2,000 years? They are NOT the same as Vulcans, but ARE descended from ancient Vulcans. It's simply a matter of breeding with other aliens, breeding-out the natives of conqered planets. It's possible that another race was native to Romulus (like the Remans are to Remus) and were subjected to "ethnic cleansing". The men were probably exterminated and the women were taken. It wouldn't be the first time an invading empire has attempted this. And it would be consistant with the variations between Vulcan and Romulan physiology.--Mike Nobody 16:26, 6 Oct 2005 (UTC) :Are the Romulans the same as Vulcans? No, there are physiological differences, obviously. But they seem to be all of relatively superificial phenotypic nature; it's impossible for them to have differentiated into a separate species in only 2,000 years. Therefore the article should reflect that Vulcans and Romulans are the same species (presumably different subspecies). -- Sci 04:45 9 October 2005 UTC ::It comes down to canon. Were they called a race or species on screen? If so, that is what we go with. While it might be impossible for two species to come from one in 2000 years in real life (i'm not even commited to that theory), in the star trek universe 2000 years is a lot of time for random things to happen, and they did spend a lot of that time wandering around in space. Jaf 02:06, 11 Oct 2005 (UTC)Jaf :Evolutionary theory holds that it takes millions of years for one species to evolve from another. The Romulans do not have significantly different phenotypes from the Vulcans -- the only real difference is the forehead (and not even all Romulans have those), they share similar hair, similar ears, similar lifespans, similar blood. They're the same species. -- Sci :::Jaf is correct, the main context should depend on what was said on-screen. Everything else might make a good background comment, though. Do you want to add it to the article? -- Cid Highwind 20:31, 13 Oct 2005 (UTC) ::(re:Sci) I know my evolutionary theory, I've done my share of university biology classes, enough to know that the Darwinian theroy to which you are refering is quite debated and today even sometimes held against such odd ideas as sudden evolution theory. And that is just out here in the real world, in the trek universe you can add 1, 2 and 3, just off the top of my head to the list of ways 2 species can come from 1 in a shorter period of time. Just something to think about. Jaf 21:01, 13 Oct 2005 (UTC)Jaf :::Who ever said there was only one species living on Vulcan 2000 years ago? I always figured that the Vulcan-Normal foreheads lived with the Vulcan-V foreheads and most of the Vulcan-V's left (with some V'tosh ka'tur-like Vulcan-Normal's) because they couldn't psychologically take emotion-suppressing. Anyways, Romulans are referred to as a species in (by Dr. Crusher) and as a race in (by Commander Riker), if that's worth anything.--Tim Thomason 21:58, 13 Oct 2005 (UTC) :I agree they can't have evolved into a significantly in only 2000 years, espcially since for this species, 2000 in more likely some 40 generations only. However Bashir says in "Inter Arma Enim Silent leges" that differences are "significant". :A possible explaination : The bulk of the anti-surak vulans who left belonged to a racial minority whose characteristic included the proheminant forehead. A detail that corroborate this : we have black vulcans (Tuvok) . I also remember an "asian" vulcan woman. I can't remeber any non-white romulan. :Another theory for the forehead problem : these ridges could grow for hormonal reasons (linked to sexuality), and vulcan me ntal discipline could have eliminated the hormone. :Also, some of the physiologic differences could be explained by the organism's reaction to the different environment. :--rami ::Commander Sirol of the Terix was an "African"-Romulan. In fact, Vulcanoids have had many different appearances of note: :::Vulcans: ::::Ridged forehead: T'Paal? ::::Flat forehead: T'Pol ::::Light-skinned: T'Pol ::::Dark-skinned: Tuvok ::::Oriental: T'Pring ::::Black hair: Tuvok ::::Brown hair: T'Pol ::::Red hair: T'Mir :::Romulans: ::::Ridged forehead: Sirol ::::Flat forehead: Decius ::::Light-skinned: Telek R'Mor ::::Dark-skinned: Sirol ::::Oriental: Caithlin Dar ::::Black hair: Sirol ::::Brown hair: Donatra :::Mintakans: ::::Ridged forehead: Nuria ::::Light-skinned: Nuria ::::Black hair: Liko ::::Brown hair: Oji :::Remans: ::::Ridged forehead: Viceroy ::::Lightish-skinned: Viceroy :::As you can see Romulans and Vulcans seem to have a racial counterpart, so any speculative "theory" on racial prejudice is somewhat unfounded. The one exception is the fact that Vulcans are a majority of flat foreheads (I thought ridged forehead Vulcans have been seen, but I guess I'm wrong), while the Romulans have a majority of ridged foreheads (the flat foreheads operating some ships during the Cold War with the Humans, if they get in a tight spot they can always claim that they're Vulcans).--Tim Thomason 00:53, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC) :You included T'Paal as having ridge Forehead, but there is no proof of that. After all Picard had ridge forehead because he was posing as a Romulan in Unification, doesn't mean Picard has pointed ears or ridge forehead. T'Paal is a Vulcan posing as a Romulan, that doesn't mean she really has ridge forehead. I think spies tend to use the Ridges on Romulus because it better hides there identity. --TOSrules 00:59, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC) ::I know, that's why I put a question mark after her name and why in the paragraph afterward state that there hasn't been seen any ridged Vulcans. I thought I saw one somewhere, as an extra or something, but I was wrong because I couldn't find anything on google (it's hard to search for these kind of things though). It states on her article that if she was a Vulcan then she wouldn't have to go through the process of adding ridges because ridge-less Romulans exist (Spock had an easy time living on Romulus). But as you said the ridges are helpful.--Tim Thomason 01:14, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC) Get A New Species In Only 2000 Years! Call now! As all good evolutionary theorists know, we have two things that could explain the rapid evolution of the Romulans into a biologically distinct group, if not a completely different species. Although, I must admit, the use of the word "species" seems to be pointless in the Star Trek universe. A species is a population of organisms that can interbreed with eachother, not not other populations. With all the hybrids floating around, the Star Trek concept of "species" seems moot. However, we all know that genotypical change is brought about by mutation. One very fast-acting and common source of mutation is radiation. If the vulcans that rejected Surak left the planet traeling in highly unstable warp ships, it's more than likely they all got a significant dosage of raditation. Also, their skin was prepared for the light of Vulcans seemingly red star, while Romulus, as we see in Nemesis, has a yellow star. This accounts for very different types of radiation which the Vulcan/Romulan DNA would not have a safeguard against. Plus, we all (should) know Steven J. Gould's theory of Punctuated Equilibrium, which states that evolution happens in quick bursts with long lulls inbetween. We just happen to see the effects of a Gouldian burst of genetic development. --The Rev 17:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC) :Hmmm... interesting. So then it's possible that the reason the Romulans have ridges in ENT and the TNG era but not on TOS is because the Romulans seen on ENT/TNG stayed primarily on their planet or within their system, while those seen on TOS were were descendents of those who spent their lives out-of-system aboard ships or something. Hey, it's a stretch, but it's possible, unless you wanna go for a Romulan augment virus. :P --From Andoria with Love 19:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC) :I thought the accepted theory was that their slow migration caused them to constantly mix their blood with the species they encountered. Reverted edits by 195.93.21.65 I just reverted the edits made today by the anon IP 195.93.21.65, for two reasons: 1. The user summarily deleted large portions of the existing article, and 2. replaced said content with copy-paste from the article at Wikipedia. This is both copyright violation and plagiarism, and can be considered close to vandalism. If the anon editor wishes to expand on the article, this is not the way to do it. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 16:43, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC) noticed something I have noticed that Romulan space and population appears to be much more vast than Vulcan, most likely because they breed at a much more rapid rate (rather than every seven years). Should this be noted? -- 09:12, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC) I think Vulcans can have children whenever they want to. (Tuvok's children seem to be less than 7 years apart) Well it has been theorised that Romulans are Vulcans (already known) but the Romulans left BEFORE the Vulcans got rid of emotions possibly not wanting to. This also suggests that Vulcans already had space travel before bottling up emotions. If P'Jem really was built in the 9th century BC and Surak lived in the 4th century AD, Vulcans would have had space travel for at least 1300 years before the Romulans left. References Could the references from ENT and TOS be incorporated into the main article somehow? Valley Forge 17:39, 2 Jan 2006 (UTC) Romulan Empress In the VOY ep "The Q and the Grey", Q mentions the Romulan Empress. This isn't defined, but I had a thought on this. Maybe he meant Vriha t'Rehu (as mentioned in the book The Romulan Way? IshaRihanha :Even if he did, that book is not canon. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC) Foreign Relations Correct me if I am mistaken but I believe the Tholians are mentioned on one or more occassions as having diplomatic ties with Romulus? Why is there no mention of this in the appropriate section? Senator Tal'aura mentions it and I think there are at least two other references to the Tholians in the canon. :If you can nail down an episode reference, please add it. I personally don't recall that at all, but with 700+ episodes and 10 movies, that doesn't really mean much :) -- Sulfur 00:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC) ::In , Senator Tal'aura mentioned a meeting with the Tholian ambassador, using this as an excuse to leave the senate before Shinzon's thalaron weapon was activated. Whether she was telling the truth or not, no one can say (although the novelization suggested she did indeed have such a meeting planned). --From Andoria with Love 01:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC) removed text I remove the following text (which I previously slapped an on and which Shran subsequently removed, and which was then put back): :There are those that reject this later theory, though, some for prejudice, some for religious beliefs. Please do not re-insert the statement without a source (i.e. a citation). Thanks! -- Renegade54 13:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC) FA status FA removal (March 2005, Success) Romulan - this is still lacking a lot of info from DS9 and ENT. At least I think so, can't really be sure because I have no idea where half of the info is coming from as very little is cited. Tyrant 17:05, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant : Support; for precisely the same reasons. || THOR 17:42, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT) : This was the original featured article, I'm not sure it ever should have been in the first place. A lot of what I read in there seems to be pretty "fluffed" up (ie: caste system?). --Gvsualan 20:10, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT) "Beta Quadrant race" is apocrypha at best, it seems The only reference that Romulans are a "Beta Quadrant race" as stated in the first paragaph seems to be "the non-canon Star Trek Encyclopedia" as stated in Beta Quadrant. Can anyone say: Is it warranted to retain this statement in non-apocryphal article sections? What canon info, if any, justifies keeping it where it is? 20:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC) : Actually, there was a display that is or will be sold on It's A Wrap! sale and auction that clearly shows the Romulans and Klingons in the Beta Quadrant. --Alan del Beccio 00:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC) ::That display cannot be considered canon, certainly not to the point where it overrides the numerous times on DS9 and VOY that it was clearly stated that the Romulans were an Alpha Quadrant race. I agree with the anonymous poster.--Antodav 21:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::What is it with reviving all those zombie discussions? In any case, it is (and has been for a long time) our policy to consider Okudagram-type stuff "valid information" in full detail, as long as the Okudagram itself has been spotted in an episode or movie. So, the basic question, and one I'd like to see proof uploaded for myself, is: was that Okudagram visible, or was it not? :::If it was just created for the movie, but not visibly used, then we must not rely on its information. On the other hand, if it has been seen, then we must not drop its information just because it seems to conflict with other information. Instead, we should note both, and let the reader beware. :::As an aside, keep in mind that a political entity can be considered to belong to geographical location X even if its capital is located in the neighbouring Y - see Turkey and its possible future European Union membership for just one realworld example. -- Cid Highwind 11:27, July 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::I don't know whether the Okudagram was visible on screen or not... but I'm interested in hearing about these "numerous times on DS9 and VOY that it was clearly stated that the Romulans were an Alpha Quadrant race." Off-hand, I can't remember any. Does anyone have a specific quote? —Josiah Rowe 18:31, July 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::I would like to see if there's a quote of someone explicitly saying Romulus is in the Alpha Quadrant, since both DS9 and VOY used the name Alpha Quadrant pretty loosely as I recall. - 00:39, July 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::In , the Romulan Ruwon says, "The Dominion represents one of the greatest threats to the Alpha Quadrant in the last century." That might seem to suggest that the Romulans are an Alpha Quadrant species, but it's far from conclusive. —Josiah Rowe 01:17, July 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::The huge map http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/Maps.htm#OfficialMaps seen in "Conspiracy" and several other places sure clearly puts Romulus in the Beta Quadrant side of the Federation. Although it doesn't precicely show where the border is. --Pseudohuman 13:38, July 23, 2010 (UTC) Warp Weren't romulans in TOS stuck with non-warp ships while the ones in ENT had warp 5 ships? :In a word, no. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC) Sargon's people I'm puzzled by the article stating that the theory that both Vulcans and Romulans are descendants of Sargon's people is contradicted by the discovery of ancient humanoid progenitors. (TNG: "The Chase") The ancient humanoid progenitors seeded DNA across the galaxy, that lead to new species developing. And explaining why there is such broad biological compatibility between sentient species in the Star Trek universe. This does not contradict Sargon's people carrying out later seedings of their own. :Perhaps Sargon's people are descendants of the ancient humanoids. Novel-Apocrypha: Rihansu? I expect this to be considered apocrypha, but in the novel "My Enemy, My Ally" there is sizable mention that the term "Romulan" is actually a Human designation, and that the Romulans call themselves and their language "Rihansu", and are actually pleasantly surprised when someone refers to them that way without the use of a translator. IMO (and I admit I am only a guest, so I won't edit the article), this should at least get a passing mention. Ancient Origins I probably shouldn't have just deleted a paragraph without raising it as a talking point, so I understand that someone added it back (slightly modified). I do still take issue with the following: *"Further confusion comes from the statement of Sub Commander T'pol that "we evolved for life on this planet". (ENT: "The Forge") It is still possible that Sargon's people travelled to Vulcan and interbred with the native population, however no canon data exists to support this theory." I don't know that T'Pol's comments have any relevance to the topic, and retconned "possibilities" have no place on Memory Alpha, especially when followed with the statement "however no canon data exists to support this theory". Memory Alpha, unless I'm greatly mistaken, has a mandate to catalog what is canon, and leave everything else to places like Memory Beta, and that other Expanded Universe wiki. I initially probably shouldn't have trimmed as much as I did from this part of the page. I admit that, and wont argue for the removal of any besides this sentence I've quoted, but admittedly non-canon speculation has no barring here. Hossrex 22:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC) :The whole section of ancient origins is a bit controversial, as Spock never directly stated what he actually theorized the Sargon's race involvement on Vulcan prehistory might have been. Was it just a brief colonization that created a cultural interference, were they the gods worshipped by early Vulcans, was it interbreeding, or that they actually became the Vulcan race by cutting ties with their homeworld and regressing to a much more primitive culture that later on turned their back to their roots. It's all speculation. You could also say that the ancient humanoids created or more accurately might have created vulcans, but you could put that fact redundantly in every damn article about any human-like race in all of Memory Alpha over and over again too. We can only say for certain about the planets where the ancient humanoids left a piece of their holo-program message behind and was found as a part of all lifeforms there, which I don't believe Vulcan was ever mentioned to be one, as any other humanoid race could be a later transplant, genetically engineered, result of an alien abduction and so on and so forth. --Pseudohuman 00:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC) But at the least, shouldn't we all be able to agree that language like "possibly", and "although no canon evidence exists" have no place on Memory Alpha? Regarding the Proto-Humanoids leaving a piece of their holo-program on Vulcan... I'd taken it as a given that since its very well received (if not also slightly controversial) that Romulans came directly from Vulcans, and since the Proto-Humanoids were like a Billion years previous, it seems canon would support it actually having been Vulcan that the Proto-Humanoids seeded, and only the Romulans by defacto. I admit I haven't watched the TOS episode where this originating line came from in ages (although I have seen it), so maybe I'll give it a reviewing. However, whichever side I fall on upon seeing the episode, Memory Alpha is a resource archiving all Canon information regarding the Star Trek universe. "Maybes", "possiblys", and "perhaps" are clearly against what MA is trying to do. Hossrex 01:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC) :I agree with the deletion of any personal theories and assumptions. Canon in fact does not support that Vulcan or Romulus or even Remus for that matter was a seeded world as such, it only supports that all humanoids come into existance directly or indirectly from "the seed code". It does not mean any planet that has humanoid life is a seeded planet, as any life can be artificially created and transplanted. Only planets we know for sure to be in the list of planets directly seeded by the Ancients are Earth, Loren 3, Ruah 4, Indri 8 and Vilmor 2 as they were aligned with each other with the holomessage pieces embedded in the seed DNA. There were several humanoids on the Enterprise who didn't have a piece of the holomessage in their DNA, even though they obviously had "the seed code". There is off course the starmap computer display screen in "The Chase" with all the worlds, that are in alignment, with a holomessage piece, but I have not found a readable version, or information on it. --Pseudohuman 15:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC) ::I note that no one saw that the paragraph in question was formatted as a Background note. There are examples all over the board where background notes are used to note and discuss discrepancies and attempt to reconcile them, which is what I did here...Capt Christopher Donovan 05:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC) Just because we didn't think that was a good enough excuse, doesn't mean we didn't realize it was formatted as a background note. Just because something is formatted as a background note, shouldn't mean you can propose any coo-coo-ca-ca crazy ideas. Regardless of the circumstance, no idea on Memory Alpha should ever be followed by no canon data exists to support this theory. If no canon data exists to support the theory, it shouldn't even be a background note. Its just one persons assumption/rationalization/inference at that point, and entirely against what Memory Alpha has set out to do. It shouldn't even be required to explain why the phrase no canon data exists to support this theory doesn't belong on Memory Alpha. Hossrex 23:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC) ::Then there are a LOT of articles that are in serious need of editing, because that sort of thing (noting contradictions and suggesting a harmonization between them) is in a whole RAFT of them. At the very least, T'pol's comment SHOULD remain as a background note, because she DID say that and the contradiction should be noted.Capt Christopher Donovan 06:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC) Simply because there are a lot, doesn't mean we shouldn't tackle the issues as they arise. Like all big problems, you can either get intimidated by the problem, or deal with them one at a time. My issue isn't that we're addressing a contradiction, my problem is the following line. *"It is still possible that Sargon's people travelled to Vulcan and interbred with the native population, however no canon data exists to support this theory." That sentence has no baring on canon. Its purely speculative, and admits as much following the coma. You can note that Spock said one thing about the Ancient Origin, and you can note that T'Pol said something different about Ancient Origin, but we shouldn't be ascribing any sort of rationalization between the two. If I thought Q did it, would I be justified in adding that? Obviously not. If I thought it was related to the Preservers would I be justified in adding that? Not really. Memory Alpha is very specific about what its trying to do. Retcons, and fan rationalizations are beyond that purpose. Hossrex 19:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC) Romulus & Remus Brothers - the mythical forefathers of Rome. The makers of TOS chose the name Romulus for the race to have a romanesque feel to it. Years later Beavis & Butthead made Nemesis and chose Remus for the name of Romulus' closest neighbour. Cute. Mentioned on any of the pages related to Romulus and Romulans? 10:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :I doubt it, and it shouldn't be, because it is not relevant to Star Trek. It is only relevant to Beavis & Butthead. Possibly some sort of mention might be (or should be) on the Star Trek parodies and pop culture references page, but not on the regular articles.--31dot 10:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC) ::31dot, I think the anon's reference to "Beavis & Butthead" was actually a jab at Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (or Berman & Braga). The problem with his comment, aside from the obvious, is that Braga was not involved in . --From Andoria with Love 11:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC) :Thanks for the clarification there. Don't know why I didn't see that before. Not thinking I guess. :)--31dot 13:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Star Trek XI * See: Talk:Star Trek (film) Regarding the newly added "endangered species comment": How could the Romulans become an endangered species when it is stated right above that "These two worlds were the foundation of an INTERSTELLAR EMPIRE THAT EXPANDED TO MANY WORLDS, reaching across some of the Beta Quadrant... (TNG: "Gambit, Part I", "Gambit, Part II"; Star Trek Nemesis) Certainly that would mean that lots of Romulans lived off-world. One would think millions, perhaps even billions lived in some of their colonies. Are we just supposed to think that these people stopped considering themselves to be Romulans? Not likely, Romulans are true to their empire, even with their original home planet gone. Furthermore, an evacuation order was issued several days before the planet was destroyed (Star Trek Countdown #4) We don't really know whether people were evacuated or not before the star went nova. Spock couldn't really know this. He travelled back in time before the news of evacuees would be known to him. :Following on from this comment, it seems rather unfair that the whole article currently now refers to the Romulan race in the past tense. ::That has nothing to do with the new movie. In fact, the article already was in past tense before the new movie was released, Klingon is in past tense as well. This is because of the MA:POV, which has MA written in the "distant future" and virtually everything in past tense. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC) just felf like metioning that the new Star Trek film is a story re-boot!!!! and dosnt match up with the other franchises. so shouldn't this referance be in its own seperate section? 22 August 2009 ::Since Nero and the other Romulans in the movie are from the previously established Star Trek timeline, the answer is no. As the writers have established, the Romulus we have seen in TNG, etc. is the same Romulus we see destroyed in this movie. Nero is from the timeline where everything from TOS through Nemesis still happened. His arrival into the past created an alternate timeline in which the new movie takes place. So, no, anything related to the Romulans from Nero's original timeline should not be separated for being of a different continuity, because it isn't. --From Andoria with Love 10:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :No matter how far the Romulan Empire may have expanded, the destruction of Romulus itself would most certainly render the species endangered. Most of the Romulan Empire probably consists of alien worlds conquered by the Romulans, as is the case with the Klingon Empire or the Federation for that matter. If Earth was destroyed, humans would be endangered as well, since somewhere close to 10 billion of them would be wiped out all at once. Most colonies seem to have populations of only a few thousand, or at the most several million. That does not compare to the billions that typically make up the population of a major race's homeworld. I would wager that no more than 10-20% of the human, Klingon, or Romulan populations actually live(d) off of Earth/Qo'nos/Romulus, including those serving in Starfleet/the KDF/the Romulan military. :And also I think the writer of the unsigned comment is misremembering STXI, since it was the Vulcans who were explicitly said to be "endangered" following the events of that movie, not the Romulans (although they most likely certainly were as well in the Prime Reality).--Antodav 21:20, July 20, 2010 (UTC) "Jolan Tru" It obviously means "Aloha". :Obviously we don't know what it means because it was never stated. It could mean 'aloha' but it could also me something like 'peace to you' which may be a common greeting or 'watch your back' since we're talking about romulans. — Morder 12:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC) :: And ...it was both a greeting and a departure comment, like aloha. --Alan 16:38, November 18, 2009 (UTC) Relations with vulcans Just seen TOS: The Enterprise Incident and the unnamed romulan commander states that the romulans have high regards to the vulcans. However, this article doesnt seem to reflect this. Maybe later canon sources claimed the oposite (and thats quite understandable), but shouldnt we at least acknolowdge this? From her reaction towards "spock's betrayal", I belive she was telling the truth on this (and in fact, she wouldnt fall for spock if Romulans disregarded Vulcans as inferior). NeoStrider "Browless Romulans" paragraph Shouldn't the part that states that "browless Romulans seem to be confined to the 23. century" be removed? Nero is not from the 23. century, and all members of his crew are browless. As for the speculation about brow/ no brow comment: It's just that, pure speculation... Others claim the brow is just "fashion" and caused by carving marks in their forehead. IMO speculation should be removed, or else all different versions of why some Romulans have brows should be mentioned... Remus destruction in STXI? I don't know what the canonical basis is for the statement that Remus was also "presumably" destroyed by the supernova in STXI. For all we know, Remus might have been orbiting on the opposite side of the Romulan sun at the moment the supernova destroyed Romulus and therefore remained intact, since Spock apparently stopped the supernova immediately after Romulus was destroyed. I believe that comment should be removed unless someone can offer up some support for it. After all, the destruction of Romulus would create a power vacuum that, if their homeworld still exists, the Remans would most likely be very eager to fill, assuming they were not re-subjugated after ''Nemesis''.--Antodav 21:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :It's true that we can't assume that Remus was destroyed in the supernova; but we can't assume that it survived either. We just don't know either way, and the articles shouldn't tip the scales one way or the other. —Josiah Rowe 19:14, July 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Agreed. -Angry Future Romulan 20:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Impact on the USS Voyager Why was this addition deleted? It was detailed, relevant to Romulan history and accurate on all counts. I deserve an explanation. I don't mind putting it back, but I do need to know why it was scrapped. :I did say"that's not really relevant to this article" in the edit summary, which is viewable in the page history and the recent changes page until it drops off the end. As for why it isn't relevant: it's about Voyager first and foremost; it has no bearing on Romulan history or culture in the grand scheme of things, beyond "the Romulans always having an interest in Voyager", which is negligible, also, it was all from Voyager s POV instead of the Romulans. The much more in-depth article Romulan history should at least mention it, but not in the amount of detail the Voyager article does/should, since it was a minor, if interesting blip to the Romulans but a very important event for Voyager. - 01:58, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Very well, I will re-write this under the section of Romulan history.